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Up to Discussions in DT50/DT25
4341 Views 20 Replies Latest reply: Jul 27, 2011 5:07 PM by TheRealZap RSS
tommy1170 Just Startin'
tommy1170
51 posts since
May 7, 2006
Currently Being Moderated

Feb 3, 2011 3:00 PM

Finally - I have figured it out!  DT50 tones on the PODHD500

OK - So I am going to eat a little crow here.  Not the whole bird, but at least the legs and the wings ;-).  So I, among others, have been posting about how the DT50 by itself sounds better than the PODHD preamps.  And we've also debated which DT50 voicings equal which amp models in the PODHD.  So, after trying the PODHD through my Vetta power amp, I accidentally stumbled on the setting to get the sounds I have been using on the DT50.  Here's what I did.....

 

I have the DT50 head and both a L6 SV 4x12 with the Celestion V30s, as well as a Mesa Dual Rectifier 2x12 oversized cab, also with Celestion V30s.  Both cabs with the DT50 are WAY loud.  To that end, I have been using the DT50 in "low power" mode with the volume POT pulled out.  As many of you have commented, the amp is still plenty loud in low power mode once the volume goes past 12 o'clock.  In fact, I so love the sound of the DT50 NFL IV voicing on Class AB and Pentode, that I simply must have it.  That is the sound I was searching for on the PODHD but couldn't get it just right.

 

So when I hooked up the Vetta power amp, I put the PODHD500 in Studio/Direct mode so I could get true stereo effects and use the dual tones.  Up until that point, I had been using either the Combo Power Amp or Stack Power  Amp settings, both of which never sounded quite right to me.  Since the Vetta is solid state and has a wide frequency response, I figured the Studio/Direct output setting would be best.  And it was!  The PODHD500 sounded really good through the Vetta power amp.  In fact, it sounded better than the sounds I was able to get out of the DT50 with the PODHD.

 

So it finally dawned on me to try the DT50 using the Studio/Direct output setting, and with the full amp models.  When I tried that, WHAM BAM!, there was the same exact sound as the DT50 by itself with the Master Volume pulled out (i.e., low power mode) and set at about the 1 o'clock position.  I did some fine-tuning with the EQ settings on the amp and Wham-O, there was "the sound".  Interestingly, I then experimented with the pre and the full amp models and concluded that both of them sound just like the DT50 itself when using the Studio/Direct setting.  Specifically, the full models sound like the DT50 in low power mode, and the pre models sound like the DT50 in full power mode.  This leads me to conclude that in both modes (i.e., full and pre) the DT50 voicings have some cabinet modeling build into them becuase they both sound right with the cab models on, and slightly "off" without them.

 

So in conclusion, try the Studio/Direct output mode with the full amp models to get the "true" DT50 low power sounds, and the pre amp models to get the full power sounds.  Also, note that on the DT50 itself, the volume output is NOT pulled out.  It is full power on the DT50 itself.  The bonus here is that you get the "low power" sound and fidelity at very high volumes because the DT50 power amp is on full blast.  This is the "secret sauce" that makes the DT50 sound "pushed" when using the PODHD pre-amps.  By the way, my sound of choice is the Mesa full amp modle, Topology IV, Class AB, Pentode.  Studio/Direct output, DT50 master volume set at about 11 o'clock.  Try that out and let me know what you think.

 

So I am re-energized about the DT50/PODHD500 combo!  Hope this helps someone else!

 

Tom

  • TheRealZap Expert Line 6 User
    TheRealZap
    11,829 posts since
    Dec 22, 2006
    Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 3, 2011 3:13 PM (in response to tommy1170)
    Re: Finally - I have figured it out!  DT50 tones on the PODHD500

    i for one, am very happy that you held on and worked it out. glad to have you around.

  • gtrman100 Iknowathingortwo
    gtrman100
    479 posts since
    Jan 24, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 4, 2011 2:37 PM (in response to tommy1170)
    Re: Finally - I have figured it out!  DT50 tones on the PODHD500

    I'm glad you're getting the tone you were searching for too. But I'm curious about how using Studio/Direct is working with the DT50. Do you think it's because you're using cabs loaded with V30's only that it sounds better using Studio/Direct? I've got the 1-12 combo loaded with the stock G12H-90. The 2-12 and 4-12 cabs come loaded with G12H-90's and V30's. Maybe it's just the way Studio/Direct sounds with the V30's that improves it over Combo/Stack?

     

    When you were experimenting with the Vetta, it is a solid state amp, but it's really the speakers that limit the frequency response, not the amp itself(both tube and solid state amps have much wider frequency response than guitar speakers), so it's not really flat response like a PA speaker or studio monitor. Do you think it's the extra Mic modeling that it making the difference?

     

    In the end, it's what sounds good that really matters, and how you get there isn't important. I'm going to experiment with S/D and see how it works even the the Pod HD automatically resets to Combo/Stack power amp when you hook up the L6 link. But I'm curious about why you think it's working for you.

    • tommy1170 Just Startin'
      tommy1170
      51 posts since
      May 7, 2006
      Currently Being Moderated
      Feb 5, 2011 8:11 AM (in response to gtrman100)
      Re: Finally - I have figured it out!  DT50 tones on the PODHD500

      You know, I never thought about it but it could be the speakers.  The Celestion V30s definitely color the tone.  Keep in mind that I have the DT50 head I am using a cab at all times.  To my ears, the studio direct mode on the POD sounds just like the Dt50 itself.  The combo power amp mode to my ears added a bunch of bass and muddiness, and the stack power amp output did just the opposite, it thinned the sound out too much.  To my ears, which I know are totally subjective, the studio/direct mode sounds like a "true full frequency" output, meaning, the audio signal that hits the DT50 power amp section is "accurate" in the sense that its whatever amp, cab and mic modeling that you select on the POD.  The combo and stack amp outputs add additional tone shaping over the "true" output from the POD itself.  Again, that's what it sounds like to me and I stumbled on this by accident when I tried my Vetta.  Hope that helps and its my best guess.

  • wolbai Just Startin'
    wolbai
    177 posts since
    Mar 30, 2010
    Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 5, 2011 8:27 AM (in response to tommy1170)
    Re: Finally - I have figured it out!  DT50 tones on the PODHD500

    Hi Tom,

     

    good to here that there is another one who has gone successfully through the learning curve with the DT50/HD-rig.

     

    I've come to the same configurations like you when running the system in it 2 modes (low and high volume).

     

    In addition I like to give 2 tips for the low volume mode which works fine for me:

     

    1. Set the NFL/Class for all your patches to: NFL I, Class A, Pentode on the DT50-side and save this with your HD-patches.

    This is not an invention from me. I got this out of this forums (don't know from whome, but it's brilliant !!!). In that configuration (studio/direct + NFL I with Class A, Pentode) the output system (in this case the DT50) mimics very much a FR/FR-system and therefore doesn't color the HD-full models too much (its like if you are playing through a clean Fender Twin Reverb). And thats the reason why it sounds even better.


    2. For the JCM800 I always use the pre amp model. I don'r know why but to my ears (and there are others there like mel)  the pre amp model also works better in the low volume mode. I guess this can change with further firmware releases.

     

     

    Hope that helps.

     

    Rock on.

  • markcockerill Just Startin'
    markcockerill
    246 posts since
    Dec 7, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 4, 2011 4:49 AM (in response to tommy1170)
    Re: Finally - I have figured it out!  DT50 tones on the PODHD500

    Hi Tommy, many thanks for this thread.

     

    I too have the DT50 head and a 4 speaker cab (Line 6 stereo) and find it just about impossible to set master volume at the right volume on stage as the most delicate of touches can result in the rig either blowing the doors off or dropping off severely and that is with the master volume around the 9 o'clock position. I need more flexibilty in how much I can turn the volume knob so I will be trying out all of the suggestions on this thread. Good stuff. I will come back and let you know if I get the disired results. I am excited to get home and try this later.

     

    Nothing wrong with my sound by the way guys, just darn near impossible to get the volume bang on playing live.

  • Iknowathingortwo
    MerlinFL
    1,667 posts since
    Jul 17, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 5, 2011 8:26 PM (in response to tommy1170)
    Re: Finally - I have figured it out!  DT50 tones on the PODHD500

    I've read through all the posts and  glad to see everyone is experimenting and finding the results that suit their needs best.

     

    Personally I really dislike the "low power Master volume pulled out mode".  I've tried many times in many ways to find something that works for me, but alas, no luck.  However, I've found that I can leave the Master volume knob in with output uncolored by the Munson-Fletcher factor in the low power mode.  I've got two DT50 1x12s hooked up via iLink and also my Vetta sitting on top of a pyramid of Line 6 amps with the audio signal sent via the FX Send output from the POD HD500.  I use BOTH the HD500 pedalboard and the FBV Longboard since they do different things with my combination of gear.  No 'four cable method" either for me. It works, but it's too cumbersome and I get what I want doing it this way with two MIDI cables and one 1/4" cable.

     

    The best part is that after being very ****** about the 2x12 I had being too heavy and way too loud, I'm able to get a terrific big fat sound with all three amps running and not be too loud on stage.  It took much tweaking, adjusting and experimenting over the past few months, but I've got it nailed down and am very happy with all the gear running together.

    Unlike Crusty (whom I respect greatly) I'm NOT going to give up or let go of my Vetta.  Those amps do far too many things the new gear does not do and I need most of those functions I've spent over 7 years building up for my show lists of patches to just leave it on the sidelines.  The new gear simply does not offer the same level of variety, however "better" the modeling and M13 level FX might be.  I use those too, but why not have it ALL when it costs me nothing extra to have everything I need?

     

    Just my opinion,

    Neal

     

    PS - my profile photo shows my pyramid rig in action.

    • Nick_Mattocks Best of the Best
      Nick_Mattocks
      9,065 posts since
      Mar 26, 2007
      Currently Being Moderated
      Jun 6, 2011 1:13 AM (in response to MerlinFL)
      Re: Finally - I have figured it out!  DT50 tones on the PODHD500

      Hey Neal

       

      I'm really pleased you have got to grips with your HD500 and DT50 amps and have integrated them into your existing rig including your Vetta.  I have seen your pics with all your L6 gear stacked up along with your two JTV's.  It looks an impressive set-up

       

      I don't own a Vetta - never have (the closest I have from that era is a DuoVerb combo which I believe is similar in some respects but without the extensive modelling and Variax options offered by the Vetta - not really too sure as I got it second-hand about four years ago - works great with the HD500 driving it though), but I do own a number of Line 6 amps as well as the usual array of Marshall, Mesa and some other brands, but I do know the Vetta is an awesome beast, and if there's no good reason to sell it and you are still finding it invaluable in your set-up, then you are 100% right to keep it and to use it as you wish to get your sound.  I have in the past taken multiple amps and guitars plus PA rig to gigs and it's worked well, but it never did my back any good LOL - we aren't getting any younger my friend

       

      Yeah - I hear what you're saying regarding the low power 'pull' option on the Master Volume pot on the DT50.  Personally I find this very useful at times when I need to keep my level low and for me there's nothing to dislike about this feature, but I agree that the DT50 works best with an HDx00 modeller with it running in full power mode.  I remembered that I had got a Marshall SE100 Speaker Emulator that I'd had for years.  So I dug it out a couple of months back and plugged it in.  I don't need to use it as a DI output which was its main purpose back when I bought it, but as an attenuator/power-soak it works great and I can attenuate the level getting to the speaker by up to 18dB which is significant and which also allows me to use the DT50 in full power mode at lower volumes or even through headphones if I want - with no speaker connected as it provides the necessary speaker impedance load to protect the output tubes and transformer.  I think the Marshall SE100 was something they produced under licence from Groove Tubes and is now discontinued, but there are other similar suitable power soak type devices available that will work the same way.

       

      The great thing is with all this stuff, that you can make it work for you in whichever way suits you best.  There will always be lots of different recommended ways of connecting, configuring and tweaking - but at the end of the day, no matter how good or useful those recommendations are, they are still only recommendations and the final choices are yours based on what your own ears tell you.

       

      Keep on rocking

       

      Cheers

       

      Nick

    • JB1973 Just Startin'
      JB1973
      604 posts since
      Apr 19, 2008
      Currently Being Moderated
      Jul 14, 2011 6:20 AM (in response to MerlinFL)
      Re: Finally - I have figured it out!  DT50 tones on the PODHD500

      I will give your suggestions above when I get a chance. I have been pretty happy with the rig overall especially recording. But....... I am starting a

      new band up and have to lower my settings so that a full band sound is close to how I play with just a drummer. The biggest complaint I am having

      is that to me I am liking tone one day I play and 2 days later when i turn it on it sounds less satisfying. I know changing the volume or pulling it out or leaving it in makes a big difference in the tones on the amp. I guess the bottom line is I am tired of tweeking, I spend more time tweeking then playing anything, wriitng or jamming. And pretty much have since I got the rig in Nov '10

      I have been using the "james gnash" approach off his awesome review. basically using full amp tones from the pod and full power mode just barely on in the dt50. this has always sounded the best to me. But i have not tried full amp sims and 1/2 power mode with studio direct, nor have I tried setting all patches with class a nfl 1. I found myself seriously considering using the dt50 as a regular 2 channel amp and getting a m13 to have a couple effects going and keeping the hd500 for recording unless the pod farm 2.5 platinum was satisfying.... i havn't had time to play with it yet.

      Prior to rereading this thread I also wanted to try the full amp mode and reducing the master volume parameter on the hd500 so the master volume on dt50 was less dramatic.

       

      Anyway thoughts are appreicated, especially ones relating to this equipment...

  • daveschutt Just Startin'
    daveschutt
    280 posts since
    Sep 8, 2008
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 27, 2011 4:02 PM (in response to tommy1170)
    Re: Finally - I have figured it out!  DT50 tones on the PODHD500

    I'll admit I'm a new DT50 owner so you've all walked longer in these shoes than I have.  Plus, I agree there is a means to an end and each person's perception of what they want to hear is different.  But, my question is by capitalizing on using the low power mode and full models isn't that sort of counterproductive to what the intention was of using the HD500 with the DT50?  My understanding was to capitalize on the HD preamp models and coupling that with a true representation of what the power amp section of those modeled amps are physically.  I'll grant you that this amp is pretty darn loud so I'm looking into attenuators to cut the db's but retain the raw tube feel and tone.

     

    Please if I'm misunderstanding something let me know, it would save me some time and money!

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