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Anyone using an HD500 with an M13 (or 5 or 9)?
by kevanprince on 2012-12-10 20:07:13

I had an m13 for use with my tube amps, but recently got another HD500 (sold the original one and am coming back). I was going to try to build a Bonamassa/Johnson style patch with dual amps, but after adding a few effects I ran out of DSP (I've since learned that the spring reverbs use a lot of DSP). Anyway, I thought I could easily use both the M13 and HD500 together, maybe a simple connection in the HD's loop and using the M13 for mostly reverbs, delays, etc.

Anyone doing this? Got any good tips/tricks or general discussion on the topic?



Re: Anyone using an HD500 with an M13 (or 5 or 9)?
by TheRealZap on 2012-12-10 20:19:51

haven't tried it with the m13, but the m5 wired in the loop stereo, and both midi connections was a breeze...

as long as you save your tone after you adjust the m5, the hd500 will remember it and switch to the saved effect when you call up the preset.can't say that the m13 would work identically (it's a bit older than the m5) but i was surprised out how seemless and easy it was getting them to work together.



Re: Anyone using an HD500 with an M13 (or 5 or 9)?
by cgtrox on 2012-12-10 22:20:10

Oh yeah. I use my HD Pro with my M9 and it works great! I use it for all of the "post" effects (mods, verbs, delays, etc.) and it works like Zap says with the MIDI connected! the good thing about my rig is I never run out of DSP. I use the "pre" models and real guitar cabs, all of my patches are dual amps!

cgtrox



Re: Anyone using an HD500 with an M13 (or 5 or 9)?
by TheRealZap on 2012-12-11 05:25:52

dammit! now the m9 is gonna have to go on the christmas list...

the pro already is... just better suited for my studio work (have the 300/bean/500)

may as well get a 400 while i'm at it! hahah



Re: Anyone using an HD500 with an M13 (or 5 or 9)?
by kevanprince on 2012-12-11 20:13:04

Hm. So you're saying you don't even have to tweak the MIDI messaging? The HD500 will automatically store and recall the M's settings? If so, that's pretty damn cool.

As for connecting in stereo, I noticed the M13 has separate 1/4" jacks for each the send and return. The HD500 has two 1/4" plugs for the return, but the send is "TRS Stereo." So I guess you just get a cable kind of like this one: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/accessories/hosa-stereo-1-4-phone-to-2--mono-1-4-phone-insert-cable">http://www.musiciansfriend.com/accessories/hosa-stereo-1-4-phone-to-2--mono-1-4-phone-insert-cable">http://www.musiciansfriend.com/accessories/hosa-stereo-1-4-phone-to-2--mono-1-4-phone-insert-cable?

With the complaints about the DSP issues, I'm surprised more people aren't using M pedals with their HD's. Or maybe they are and I just haven't read those threads yet.



Re: Anyone using an HD500 with an M13 (or 5 or 9)?
by kevanprince on 2012-12-11 20:17:10

cgtrox, you are using real cabs? What are you using to power those cabs? Just curious...



Re: Anyone using an HD500 with an M13 (or 5 or 9)?
by TheRealZap on 2012-12-11 20:17:55

yeah you have to use a TRS to 2xTS insert cable...

but yeah... i think that the M5 (in my case) send the midi patch # to the hd500, as long as you save it, it sends that back out when the patch is selected.... in my experience it was that simple...

i don't tend to need all the DSP as i don't use dual amps, and use the pre's with my DT amp... so i basically did it as a proof of concept and played with it like that for a few weeks.



Re: Anyone using an HD500 with an M13 (or 5 or 9)?
by kevanprince on 2012-12-11 20:39:28

Very cool. Thanks, I will grab a few cables tomorrow and check it out. Not that I really need to. I honestly would probably be better off just running the M13 in front of one of my tube amps (HRD or JVM410H), or with an HD300 or 400 in the loop of one of them, but I can't help myself...and since I have the 500 and M13 I may as well check it out....haha



Re: Anyone using an HD500 with an M13 (or 5 or 9)?
by Notooth on 2012-12-12 15:13:54

I also have succesfully used the M13 in the HD500 effects loop with a stereo TRS cable.  It worked great when I placed effect loop before the amp sim but noticed clipping when the el was placed after the amp.  That was easily adusted through the send.return levels in the effects loop.  I enjoyed having no restriction on DSP.  I have since moved away from this setup since it took up to much floor space.  I moved to more single amp patches to keep my pedalboard as compact as possible.  BTW I purchased an L3m and use that in the back line.  No AMP for my cover band.  I prefer the FR/FR setup so what I hear from my L3m is for the most part what the audience is hearing through the mains.  But for any of you DSP crazies out there I recommend highly the M pedals if you have the floorboard space.  The M13 effects to my ears sound identical going through the HD500.



Re: Anyone using an HD500 with an M13 (or 5 or 9)?
by anonyrat on 2012-12-13 15:40:06

Remember that the HD500 doesn't act like a good MIDI controller.

If you set up an FX footswitch(HD500) assigned to the FXLOOP to select the preset on the M9 etc - then you have to press the FS to send the MIDI message. This is how I am doing it currently - not ideal..

But it does mean that I can select the preset on the M9 that I want. So lets say that on the M9 you set up:-

Preset 1 to a slap back delay

Preset 2 to Spring Reverb

Preset 3 to Multi Head Delay

Using the FS on the HD500 I can set HD500_Patch_1 to 4 to Preset 1 on the M9 (first 4 patches to slap back)

*** To do this method the MIDI channel has to be different from the base channel and not OMNI

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The other way is to set the M9 to the HD500 base channel (usually 1) or OMNI

Now this sends a Program change message WHENEVER you select a new preset on the HD500

Therefore using the above...

Select Patch 1 on the HD500 selects preset 1 on the M9 (slapback)

Select Patch 2 on the HD500 selects preset 2 on the M9 (Spring Reverb)   OH NO I WANTED SLAP BACK!!

Select Patch 3 on the HD500 selects preset 3 on the M9 (Multi Head Delay)  as above

64 patches in a setlist - 24 presets in an M9 - so patch 25 starts back to slapback etc. Imagine how frustrating this method is...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My new solution is that I have ordered a MIDI Solutions MIDI mapper to map program change messages to what I want.

Will have to wait for that and see how that goes.



Re: Anyone using an HD500 with an M13 (or 5 or 9)?
by kevanprince on 2012-12-13 15:46:52

Interesting anonyrat. That seems to directly contradict what the two guys above said. I just picked up my cables today so I'll give it a shot tonight and see how it works for me.



Re: Anyone using an HD500 with an M13 (or 5 or 9)?
by anonyrat on 2012-12-13 16:13:42

Well that has been my experience so far. If Zap et al can prove me wrong I will be happy. Only have an M9 but that works as I said in my post. I think L6 have hardwired that into the HD500 that Patch 1 outputs Program Change 1.

Patch 2 to PG 2 etc



Re: Anyone using an HD500 with an M13 (or 5 or 9)?
by TheRealZap on 2012-12-14 07:42:45

i was only using an m5, so the presets were pretty simple in my case



Re: Anyone using an HD500 with an M13 (or 5 or 9)?
by anonyrat on 2012-12-14 18:05:53

Actually I am going to prove I was slightly wrong in my above message. Using MIDIOX to check the HD500 output it was outputing program changes 00 -> 63 (Therefore all 64 patches) OK

HOWEVER:

When I ran these into the M9 the first 24 patches from the HD500 did indeed selected the corresponding (6 by 4 folders) M9 presets 00->00, thru to 23

But upon reaching the 25th patch output from the HD500 which is 7A, and then above, did not get recognised by the M9 - It just doesn't know what to do with program changes over 25.

Will need that Midi mapper now...



Re: Anyone using an HD500 with an M13 (or 5 or 9)?
by jimsreynolds on 2012-12-14 18:46:12

Looking at the M9 Manual here ==>  http://line6.com/data/6/0a060b316ac34f0593fca717b/application/pdf/M9%20Advanced%20Guide%20-%20English%20(%20Rev%20A%20).pdf

The">http://line6.com/data/6/0a060b316ac34f0593fca717b/application/pdf/M9%20Advanced%20Guide%20-%20English%20(%20Rev%20A%20).pdf">http://line6.com/data/6/0a060b316ac34f0593fca717b/application/pdf/M9%20Advanced%20Guide%20-%20English%20(%20Rev%20A%20).pdf

Thelast statement on page 1.2 is

You now have access to 4 Scene folders (24 Scenes), with the ability to backup/restore

an individual Scene, a Scene folder of 6 Scenes, or all 4 Scene folders at once via MIDI.

It seems then that the M9 has only 24 Midi 'Presets (AKA Scenes) and will not respond to higher ones.  Of course this is not so great when syncing with the HD500 which has 64.

Seems like an odd limitation.



Re: Anyone using an HD500 with an M13 (or 5 or 9)?
by anonyrat on 2012-12-15 15:04:30

Yes only 24 scenes/patches. 64 presets/patches in the HD500.

L6 can get round this easily by  -- Keeping the hd500 as-is  - so no-one is affected (by default but internally a software upgrade), BUT in HD edit allow a preset over-ride so that instead of say preset 1 outputing the default C0 00 MIDI message ( This equates in MIDI-ease as C[program change] 0 [MIDI ch 1] 00 [program 1] ) then you could over-ride this to CF 08 [program change on MIDI ch 16 program 9] - of course the C0 00 would be hidden behind a simple mapped entry.

This would be simple to implement and would give Dream rig owners the ability to add an M9/M13 and have a Super Dream rig! 



Re: Anyone using an HD500 with an M13 (or 5 or 9)?
by cgtrox on 2012-12-18 22:06:40

@ kevanprince, I'm using a Crown XLS1000. Just nice clean power! Pretty neutral, no color. Let's the cabs voice come thru...

cgtrox

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Re: Anyone using an HD500 with an M13 (or 5 or 9)?
by anonyrat on 2012-12-19 21:57:51

OK in a post above I said that I was going to get a Midi Mapper - well it has arrived and this is my feedback.

FYI: The unit is a Event Processor Plus from MIDI Solutions ( I got the plus because it allows 32 settings (in my case mappings))

Whilst I was awaiting the arrival of this unit I downloaded the software (which you have to do anyway) and had a look to see if it was going to do what I wanted. Bit late I know ...

The program is just a list of MIDI instructions that when you right click on allow any changes to be made in an easy to use panel.

You may remember my dilemma, Select patch 1 on the HD500 sends out program change 0, patch 2 sends pc 1 all the way up to 64 patches. Sequentially duh

Now I had set the HD500 patches to require the following presets on the M9

HD500           M9

1-4                 5

5                    0

6                    8

7                    9

8                    7 etc...

Using the event processor plus I wrote the mappings in about 10 minutes.

The unit takes a midi cable IN from the HD500  which supplies power (so no extra power needs) output goes to the M9

This really works well for me and has allowed me to really integrate the M9 into the dream rig in a creative way.

So in the above list selecting HD500 patch 2B (#6) it will change the M9 to preset 8 (2A in folder 2)

Cons: The Event processor only allows 32 settings (think instructions or mappings) - so to map each preset in the HD500 would require two units, daisy-chained. But, in reality

this was not a real requirement as I set a default preset on the M9 (say 0) and then set all program changes to 0 except certain patches or blocks of patches. Out of 32 I used 17.

So not a serious con.

Pros: No power needed, east to set-up, works very well, gives me a super dream rig that L6 couldn't...




The information above may not be current, and you should direct questions to the current forum or review the manual.